What makes a movie a classic?

[El_Guapo]

The reason I ask is because I'm getting really pissed off at the way Hollywood is currently raping some of the most defining movies of our time.

I just finished downloading the new Karate Kid, the A-Team and Clash of the Titans the other day and to they were a let down is an understatement! But then...what did I really expect?

But what was it about the originals that makes them so loved?

[Bones]

I think you hit the tail on the donkey there. I think it's the originality which has made them so loved, well for me it is at any rate. The unexpected is no longer unexpected if it's just remade. Sort of the same when you look at sequels. The Matrix, for instance, was awesome, but the next 2 couldn't quite match it even though they had bigger budgets. And things like "Rush Hour", the first one being funny as, but with the next 2 you kinda knew what to expect.

There are exceptions to this theory, though not many that I can think of.

I wonder what everyone else thinks?

[El_Guapo]

I think you're spot on about originality but do you think maybe there's even more to it than that?

How much impact does cast have? For example, would the Goonies have been half as good without the particular bunch of kids that they used? Sometimes the choice of cast members just kind of clicks and works. Can you imagine anyone else playing the part of Chunk? (wonder what happened to that dude btw?)

I think with sequels the only ones that ever work are the films that are continuations of the original story like Lord of the Rings or Star Wars. I'm not sure though that these can really be called sequels though , or can they?

Like you say there are a few exceptions (e.g. Terminator 2) but on the whole sequels just tend to be an attempt to cash in again IMO and I don't usually bother with them.

(btw agree 100% about The Matrix! Why didn't they just leave it alone as a standalone story?!)

[Bones]

Yeah, I'm sure there is more to it than just originality but I can't quite put my finger on the other components.

Matrix would've been a completely different film had their first choice as Neo (Will Smith) accepted the role. And things like "Friends" may not have enjoyed as much success if they had gone with their original line up. I think the cast always brings something extra to a film or show and each different person brings a unique twist on any character which in turn gives the film a different twist.

Not sure if they are classed as sequels if it's a continuation of the original, but saying that I do like to separate the original Matrix from the other 2, even though they are continuations, whereas Lord of the Rings, Star Wars, Kill Bill etc have to be watched one after the other & cannot be looked upon as stand alone efforts.

Either way, sequels & remakes do also strike me as just another way to squeeze even more cash out of the original success. It's just a shame that they hardly ever live up to the first one & is also a shame that failed attempts can change the view of the original...... Well, they do for me at any rate.

[El_Guapo]

I know what you're saying. Matrix works as a standalone film and doesn't need the extra (trying to be clever) bullshit attempts at mindfuc*s that the sequels offer. Other films like Kill Bill or LOTR actually finish on a cliffhanger so the audience is anticipating the next instalment.

Kill Bill is an interesting example. I actually think it would have been better if the producers had listened to Tarantino and left it as one long epic. Part 1 is just sooooooo much better than part 2 which wouldn't have been that noticeable if it was one film.

I also hate these bloody films that turn into franchises. You know what I'm talking about; films like American Pie, Road Trip, Friday 13th etc...

I'm amazed that there are even still assholes that PAY to go to the cinema to watch such shit...

[Frog]

I saw the A Team last night....................




































I loved it

[Frog]

In fact while we're on the subject, I loved the original Karate Kid but you cannot deny it was a terrible film!! Bad acting and deadly skills learnt from washing cars

[El_Guapo]

Of course it was a terrible film!! lmao!

But it's still a classic

Twenty years later we still have idiots that will use that swan kick in a fight hahahaha!

The new version doesn't have that same magic the original did though in that it doesn't suck you in the same way. Will Smith's little kid, sorry to say, comes across as a spoilt little brat who thinks he's already a "star." To say his acting leaves a LOT to be desired is an understatement.

And before anyone shouts "oh but he's only a kid!" yeh he's a kid so what? If he can't act shouldn't have bloody cast him!

[Frog]

There we go then, crap film, crap acting, why isn't it a classic?

[El_Guapo]

Ahhh because there is a difference between a film being crap and a film having a crap plot.

The plot to the original was ludicrous but it was not a crap film. Ralph Macchio and Pat Morita made the roles their own and it was them that made the film so unforgettable.

Jackie Chan and Will Smith Jr. just don't cut it I'm afraid. Chan, ever since becoming too old to do his Police Story films, has got a bit boring to watch and Will Smith Jr you just want to give a slap round the head for being such an arrogant little shit. It's your Daddy that's the star....not you.

[Frog]

You know what makes a film a classic? Watching it when you were young. By the time your old and cynical you see all the flaws in a film before you fall in love with it. Try watching a film like a simpleton would, don't analyse it, don't dissect the plot or the motivations of the characters, don't look for continuity errors, just switch off and enjoy.

That's how I do it and I love all sorts of crap

[El_Guapo]

I'm not sure I agree with that.

I like the odd brainless bit of violence too. For example I can never get bored of watching Starship Troopers

I think there are films you watch as an adult which become classics. Goodfellas, Scarface, Godfather...

I think it's more to do with direction. Sometimes the right Director can make a crap film superb.

[Frog]

I love starship troopers to Utter tripe but totally watchable.

Goodfellas, Scarface, Godfather all contain classic quotes that you will have heard a million times before you see them "He sleeps with the fishes" "Say hello to my little friend" etc. Maybe it's being told that they are classics before you watch them that makes them seem better

[El_Guapo]

I think that's definitely true in certain circumstances but I'm not sure that can be applied as a hard and fast rule.

Using Avatar as an example you told me the other day how much you love it. Would you be prepared to say it is an example of a modern day classic? You've never heard any of the dialogue in that before...

Maybe it's all subjective and depends on the viewer? Maybe the personal experiences of each individual will either make them love or hate a film? If so, then the question of what actually makes a film a classic can never really be objectively answered.

[Frog]

Interesting point, maybe it does come down to the individual but films like the godfather are regarded by so many as a classic that when I hear someone who didn't like it I always assume that they're saying that just for attention or to play devils advocate.

As for Avatar, tough one. I never heard any quotes from the film before and I can't really think of one now except "I see you" weak, I know! Some may regard this as a modern classic but I suspect the true test will be whether it stands the test of time. I don't think I would call it a classic but I certainly think it was a beautiful film and I empathised with the good guys all the way through. I wanted to get an Avatar body and throw caution to the wind knowing that my real body was tucked away safe in a lab. I bought into the idea of it and maybe that's why I liked it. I didn't evaluate it as a film I just watched it for what it was, a great bit of escapism that gave me a new daydream to play with, just like the Matrix did.

[Jobless Oddball]

A film is a classic if I say so

[munchkin]

A film is a classic if I say so

wow....... great input.

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