Smoking ban good but not good enough?

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Re: Smoking ban good but not good enough?

Post by Bones on 16th September 2009, 10:40 am

I don't really see the logic in "Anti Smoking" arguments. It seems to me that people just want to take away my freedoms & choices. I would never smoke in a restaurant because it's rude. I also find it slightly disgusting for people to be smoking where others are eating. Expectant mothers certainly should not smoke as that takes away the choice of their unborn.

In shops I won't smoke, generally I'm happy not to smoke in enclosed public areas. It's not fair on the non smokers, but, I don't see the harm in smoking around other smokers. I don't see the harm in smoking in outdoor spaces away from non smokers. I don't see the harm in smoking in the comfort of my own home. I don't see the harm in having establishments where smoking is allowed. Let people know that smoking is allowed & give them the choice as to whether or not to enter that establishment.

Choice is the big thing here. Give people the facts and let them make a choice is what I say. My mother doesn't tell me what I can or can't do anymore; I don't see what gives anyone else the right to take my choices away.
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Re: Smoking ban good but not good enough?

Post by Frog on 16th September 2009, 10:48 am

Razz Look at you with your chest all poking out! Ty’s comment was just that we are using these arguments about choice and freedom to cover the fact that we’re addicts. Carry on smoking mate, at some point the buggers will find a way to stop us, in the meantime don’t try and convince yourself that it’s just about freedom of choice. Its addiction pure and simple but we addicts are great at finding excuses for it. Laughing

Having said that, I can’t speak for you. Maybe you can quit whenever you want to, I know some people who can. I’m stuck with it till I have an addiction defining moment though.
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Re: Smoking ban good but not good enough?

Post by Bones on 16th September 2009, 10:52 am

I've quit twice before to prove a point. Once for a year & once for 6 months. Maybe I am an addict but I make the choice not to seek help for my addiction when there is plenty out there....

I'm happy with my addiction, I recognise that I have one & I don't want to do anything about it. Non smokers should respect that & leave it be instead of trying to force their beliefs down everyone’s throat.
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Re: Smoking ban good but not good enough?

Post by Frog on 16th September 2009, 10:57 am

I have quit before but I found it really hard after a week or so, I convinced myself that I was over the hard part and could afford the odd one or two. Didn't take log for that to become three, four, more. I'll quit one day but in the meantime I would rather people didn't keep telling me to.
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Re: Smoking ban good but not good enough?

Post by Guest on 16th September 2009, 11:00 am

So even by your measure NR_ the only acceptable places are the open plains of Kathmandu and in the the home but only if there are no pregnant women, or children, or objectors, or vulnerable, or susceptible, or where anyone is eating - and you state 'away from non-smokers' but smoking in doorways is not 'away' , smoking on a shared park bench is not 'away' etc., also, 'set aside' establishments, which are in full view of the general public, wouldn't half undermine the message, that smoking is a blight on society in every way and no longer acceptable.

..and you'll smell Wink

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Re: Smoking ban good but not good enough?

Post by Guest on 16th September 2009, 11:01 am

There ought to be no respect for 'addiction!'

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Re: Smoking ban good but not good enough?

Post by Bones on 16th September 2009, 11:22 am

In the home I would not want to harm my unborn child, so I wouldn't smoke. However, if someone objects to my smoker then they shouldn't come to my house. I wouldn't tell them what to do in their home & if it was something which I didn't want done around me I wouldn't go there. Choice.

On a park bench, if I am smoking & someone comes & sits next to me then they shouldn't tell me to extinguish my cigarette. They could've chosen any bench but decided to sit next to a smoker. They made a choice.

Smoking establishments would be in view of the public, but only the establishment would be. Strip joints are in the view of the public, but the strippers are not.

If establishments for smokers existed you wouldn't see people in doorways smoking. You didn't see much of that before the smoking ban was introduced.......

I do smell........ of soap & deodorant! Fishmongers, dustbin men & all other types of people smell really bad. Summertime on a tube stinks of BO! I'll take the smell of cigarettes over that any day of the week. And anyway, there's loads of sprays which I can use so that I smell better. Lynx anyone? Laughing

Maybe there shouldn't be respect for addiction, but there should be respect for the choice of others. I respect the choice of non smokers not to smoke. I just want the same in return.
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Re: Smoking ban good but not good enough?

Post by Frog on 16th September 2009, 11:26 am

I respect you dude, leave him alone Ty Mad
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Re: Smoking ban good but not good enough?

Post by Guest on 16th September 2009, 11:26 am

Tytonidae wrote:There ought to be no respect for 'addiction!'

You are right in your arguments that smoking is bad, and should,nt be inflicted on others, Ty, but, IMO, you're wrong in wanting to stop everyone from doing it.

Everybody is addicted to something, if by addiction you mean you enjoy doing it, and dont want to stop.

By your criteria, there would be no drugs, no drink, no chocolate, no harmful fats, no meat, no gyms, SOME people get addicted to all those things, (and countless more) MOST people just choose to enjoy them.

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Re: Smoking ban good but not good enough?

Post by Guest on 16th September 2009, 5:19 pm

Addiction is 'can't stop' Syl, not 'don't want to stop'

I'm afraid smokers define themselves by it. "Don't come to my house if you don't want to be exposed to passive smoking!" "Don't sit on this bench because I was here first and I smoke! get it!!"
No comparison between the sexual titilations of a strip club(and there aren't so many) and the life threatening, other affecting, smoking habit. Hey, let youngsters grow up and have a night out at strip joint - won't kill em....
Delusional with the aroma thing Wink

Not smoking is the natural state and requires no respect but for some reason people are supposed to respect smoking? scratch


Lynx Laughing ffs Wink

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Re: Smoking ban good but not good enough?

Post by Bones on 16th September 2009, 6:10 pm

Well by that definition I'm not addicted then. That's good to hear.

Secondly my rule is simple. Don't come to my house if you can't abide by my rules. A rule in my house is that I'm free to smoke as are other smokers without having to hear people complain about it. Another is repsect my property. Can't do those or any of my other rules then don't visit. A rule in your house would probably be no smoking. If I couldn't abide by your rule should I come to your house & ignore that rule or not come at all?

The comparison was of the actual venue & the fact that from outside you can't see what's going on inside, not what happens in there & there are loads! Clearly not as in the view of the public as you thought.....Wink

Being naked is also a natrual state which requires no respect but for some reason people, by law, must wear clothes in public?

Don't like lynx? Well there's Sure, Right Gaurd or you could pick an Aftershave. Or maybe Fabreeze. Does wonders for fabrics Wink
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Re: Smoking ban good but not good enough?

Post by Guest on 16th September 2009, 6:58 pm

I don,t mind people smoking in my house as I smoke myself all I ask of people is not to smoke upstairs Ive got to have 1 smoke free zone for my littleun. Its only fair Wink xxx If people come to mine don,t expect the red carpet I don,t like fuss mostly family. Christmas I will make an exception I wil get my best china out. (it only comes out 1 a year coz its too gorgeous).

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Re: Smoking ban good but not good enough?

Post by Guest on 16th September 2009, 7:14 pm

Let us not get carried away about 'lack of respect'. I respect all living beings, human and animal.
I disagree with spurious arguments, excuses, feigned moral high ground, addiction speak and why should I have respect for these things, it wouldn't make sense.

Each one of us will usually be our own downfall and contribute to our own demise, one way or another.
I always argue for everyone to recieve the best the NHS can offer, with no conditions really, when it comes to smoking related, drink related, drug related illness - a lot don't. They will argue 'self infliction' and put you to the bottom of the list - I would argue 'medical need' and treat accordingly.

Smoking stands alone imo., as being just about the worst vice, in many serious ways and defended it is stupid.

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Re: Smoking ban good but not good enough?

Post by Guest on 16th September 2009, 7:18 pm

One would get to know which were smoking pubs;that they would exist at all is not on! - and against the law now Laughing Razz

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Re: Smoking ban good but not good enough?

Post by Guest on 16th September 2009, 9:36 pm

Tytonidae wrote:Selfishness and addiction, masquerading as freedom fighting and rationale..
Very Happy LP

My names jack and I'm an addict and the rest of the world are in denial.

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Re: Smoking ban good but not good enough?

Post by Guest on 16th September 2009, 10:23 pm

Ty, at last something we must agree to disagree on.
Much as I personally hate smoking, I hate even more "forbidding" other people to have free choice.
Smoking is,nt against the law, people should be free to smoke without someone else telling them they are wrong.

Like I said, education will work a darn sight better than force.

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Re: Smoking ban good but not good enough?

Post by Guest on 16th September 2009, 10:47 pm

I smoke, but I do it at my back door.....why? so I don`t have yellow ceilings Embarassed

I would expect people that come into my house to do the same, in fact I insist Twisted Evil

On saying that, I went to my friends house (non smoker) she said I could smoke indoors....I couldn`t Neutral

I have given up smoking twice...both times to prove a point Twisted Evil ....I am smoking atm, but I`m getting fed up with it again...I can`t stand being addicted to something and having it rule my life Wink

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Re: Smoking ban good but not good enough?

Post by Guest on 16th September 2009, 10:49 pm

My Grandmother always said that if God had intended for man to smoke he would have put a chimney on his head. rofl

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Re: Smoking ban good but not good enough?

Post by Guest on 16th September 2009, 10:54 pm

letitbe wrote:My Grandmother always said that if God had intended for man to smoke he would have put a chimney on his head. rofl

True enough lol!

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Re: Smoking ban good but not good enough?

Post by Guest on 16th September 2009, 11:05 pm

Syl wrote:Ty, at last something we must agree to disagree on.
Much as I personally hate smoking, I hate even more "forbidding" other people to have free choice.
Smoking is,nt against the law, people should be free to smoke without someone else telling them they are wrong.

Like I said, education will work a darn sight better than force.

The main thrust of my argument Syl was along the lines of tighter and tighter controls as to where folk smoke and idealistic banning of tobacco (miles off!). The thread broadened out into my obvious disapproval, when it wouldn't be my usual approach. I prefer to attack this issue by squeezing at the arguments, as they relate to the social effects of smoking but if the personal arises, I will discuss it.
Most arguments are motivated by the addiction, they should be challenged really.

You put great store by education on a lot of contentious issues Syl but it's often weak in its outcome. As Pixie stated earlier, in her experience the ban has coerced a large proportion of her example into giving up.


Last edited by Tytonidae on 16th September 2009, 11:34 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Smoking ban good but not good enough?

Post by Guest on 16th September 2009, 11:09 pm

Jill wrote:I smoke, but I do it at my back door.....why? so I don`t have yellow ceilings Embarassed

I would expect people that come into my house to do the same, in fact I insist Twisted Evil

On saying that, I went to my friends house (non smoker) she said I could smoke indoors....I couldn`t Neutral

I have given up smoking twice...both times to prove a point Twisted Evil ....I am smoking atm, but I`m getting fed up with it again...I can`t stand being addicted to something and having it rule my life Wink

An honest realistic post Jill. LP

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Re: Smoking ban good but not good enough?

Post by Bones on 17th September 2009, 10:42 am

Bottom line is we all face the consequences of our own choices. We are given the information on smoking & many of us continue to do so knowing the risks, just like many people continue to drink, knowing the risk & many people continue to drive, knowing the risk. I'm a big boy & don't need someone telling me what I can & can't do to my body. I enjoy smoking so I smoke. When I stop enjoying it I'll stop. Simples!

I just don't think it's fair for people to insist on a venue being non smoking when they would never step foot in the place either way. Have smoking pubs where people can choose to go or not & have non smoking pubs where people can choose to go or not. Choice is what is being taken away and simply it’s a discriminatory action to insist that every public house in the land be non smoking. Funny that you can smoke in the House of commons estate though……. Do as I say not as I do me thinks……

And anyone who has a problem with smokers & drinkers (Not drug users & I know nobody here has said so thus far) receiving NHS treatment should have a look where a lot of NHS funding comes from. It doesn't cost £4 to make & ship a pack of 20 cigarettes...... Figures show that tax from smoking has contributed around about £10 BILLION to the NHS in 1 year & I'm not even going to start on Alcohol......

As I said, I know the risks & so does every other smoker. Let us get on with it. It’s our lives after all…….. They’ll probably after the drinkers next, yet alcohol causes more deaths directly & indirectly than smoking ever has or ever will…… But people enjoy that vice so it’s okay.
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Re: Smoking ban good but not good enough?

Post by Frog on 17th September 2009, 10:47 am

Bravo NR, Bravo.
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Re: Smoking ban good but not good enough?

Post by Guest on 17th September 2009, 10:52 am

Well said NR ..

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Re: Smoking ban good but not good enough?

Post by Guest on 17th September 2009, 12:55 pm

lol! Birds of a feather.......... Wink

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