8 year olds wanting sex change........

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8 year olds wanting sex change........

Post by Bones on 20th October 2009, 1:28 pm

Did anyone watch this on Channel 4 last night?? Shocked Shocked Shocked

I can only call what I saw Child abuse. If you haven't watched it, please make sure to watch it on 4OD. It really shocked me to the core.

If you have watched it what did you think? Do you agree with what you saw? Would you put your own child through it?

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Re: 8 year olds wanting sex change........

Post by Frog on 20th October 2009, 1:31 pm

I watched a bit of it but got so annoyed with the mother that I had to turn over. What a stupid, selfish, ignorant, fairyland twat that woman is Shocked How could she do that to her child who is so obviously just looking for the kind of love she would have given him if he was a girl.

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Re: 8 year olds wanting sex change........

Post by Bones on 20th October 2009, 1:35 pm

I got very annoyed with her too. The second mother I kinda sympathised with. At least she admitted that this could very well be her fault for how she has raised him. But the first mother really should have that little boy taken away from her as it's nothing short of child abuse in my opinion.

I take it you didn't see the girls wanting to be boys?

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Re: 8 year olds wanting sex change........

Post by Frog on 20th October 2009, 1:38 pm

No, I was going to watch the whole thing but I decided to use my mind in a more constructive matter on my Xbox. Was there any one of those cases that weren’t as a result of the parents influence do you think?

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Re: 8 year olds wanting sex change........

Post by Bones on 20th October 2009, 1:41 pm

Bunni - I think it'll soon be available on the channel 4 website. look for 4 On Demand or 4OD.


I think each & every child there was a result of the parents in one way or another. Each of us is a product of our environment. Little boys wanting to be little girls & vice versa, 1 thing I noticed about every child featured last night & I really hate to say this but, they were all missing their biological fathers............ I think this may have played a big role......

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Re: 8 year olds wanting sex change........

Post by Frog on 20th October 2009, 1:53 pm

The lack of a solid set of role models is bound to have an influence on the state of mind of a child. I just can't believe that they wouldn't make them wait till their at least 16/17

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Re: 8 year olds wanting sex change........

Post by Bones on 20th October 2009, 1:57 pm

That's my opinion. The doctor said to one of the girls, wanting to be a boy, that if she starts taking the hormone treatments it will make her infertile! How can you put that decision on a 12 year old??

It's maddness! I know that the things I wanted as a 12 year old changed when I got to 15 & those changed at 18..... again at 21...... How can a 12 year old make such a massive life altering decision? As a parent how do you stand by & even contemplate putting that decision onto your 12 year old?? It's utter maddness!! Makes me so angry to even think about it!! Mad

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Re: 8 year olds wanting sex change........

Post by Bones on 20th October 2009, 2:02 pm

Again, that mother should be arrested on child abuse charges!! Mad Mad

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Re: 8 year olds wanting sex change........

Post by Frog on 20th October 2009, 2:02 pm

That doesn’t even sound like he wanted to be a girl, just wanted to make his mum happy. What little boy doesn’t want to make his mum happy?

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Re: 8 year olds wanting sex change........

Post by Bones on 20th October 2009, 2:07 pm

That mother just Mad Mad

I think that up until the age of about 11 the primary people in a childs life are all female........ We all want to be like our heroes & a child of any gender is likely to see a woman as their hero...... But once puberty hits the lieklyhood is that will change......

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Re: 8 year olds wanting sex change........

Post by Frog on 20th October 2009, 2:25 pm

It goes back to my old argument that you should be sterilised at birth and earn the right to have children when you're older, some people do not deserve that right Mad

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Re: 8 year olds wanting sex change........

Post by Bones on 20th October 2009, 2:31 pm

Some people certainly don't! That woman was a total disgrace. A pitiful excuse for a mother.

Sorry, it just made me so damned angry!! Mad

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Re: 8 year olds wanting sex change........

Post by Frog on 20th October 2009, 2:41 pm

Me too mate and I didn't even see it through to the end. I'm looking forward to Ty's thoughts on this one though Very Happy

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Re: 8 year olds wanting sex change........

Post by Bones on 20th October 2009, 2:45 pm

Ty's thoughts should be interesting indeed!

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Re: 8 year olds wanting sex change........

Post by Bones on 20th October 2009, 2:54 pm

It's said that an 8 year old child is not mature enough or emotionally stable enough to be able to consent to sexual activity of any kind...... If this is the case, how can an 8 year old consent to going through hormone therapy for a sex change?

Also, with the girls trying to be boys, they have girlfriends who are unaware of the fact that they're dating & kissing a girl. This in itself could traumatise those poor young girls for life. You'll have them questioning their sexuality now even though they originally thought they were dating actual boys. Would they still have been happy to kiss & cuddle with them if they knew the truth? A choice like that affects others & those girls have the right to know that they are really dating girls.....

The abuse appeared to me to be subtle mental abuse over a long period of time. Almost subliminal, especially for the first featured child. The others were not nearly as bad, but that first one really really got my rather angry....

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Re: 8 year olds wanting sex change........

Post by Bones on 20th October 2009, 3:08 pm

Bunni wrote:I think it's a very long processes which the documentary didn't really investigate - although I do have to say that the fact that in the UK they won't even consider it until the age of 16 was heartening

That's the one saving Grace for me. I'm all for people doing their own thing when the get to 16. And it was good to know that Chris is honest & open with girlfriends, although I have to say a full sex change seems a little extreme..........

That was also the one that got me the angriest - there are things i do discuss with my daughter (8 btw) but if i asked her what a hormone was i think i would get the blankest look possibly to get!!

Totally agree. An 8 year old has no hope of understanding the long term implications of such a decision.

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Re: 8 year olds wanting sex change........

Post by Frog on 22nd October 2009, 11:55 am

Maybe a lack of understanding has caused our outrage Ty Dunno I don't know a lot about Gender dysphoria and to be honest I always assumed that it was an issue that developed during puberty.

Whether or not the condition is legitimate, do you think tht an 8 year old can ever be in a position to make that sort of a choice about their future?

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Re: 8 year olds wanting sex change........

Post by Frog on 22nd October 2009, 12:05 pm

Now I feel like a lyncher who's just had his wrist slapped Embarassed

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Re: 8 year olds wanting sex change........

Post by Bones on 22nd October 2009, 12:10 pm

My outrage isn't with Gender Dysphoria. It is a condition which is said to start early. Even so, it's a fact that many young boys want to be exactly like their heroes. An average child spends most of their time between the ages of 0 - 11 primarily with women. This says to me that the chances of them having a female hero are rather high & as such they want to be like that hero who is usually their mother. However, once they reach puberty they usually "grow out" of it (For want of a better way to put it). As this is the case shouldn't they wait to see if puberty takes over & the changes the child’s mind as opposed to blocking it?

Where my outrage came in was mainly with the first mother. She seemed to have brought her son up as a girl & it seemed to me that she was trying to persuade him that it's what he wants when in fact he didn't seem to want that much at all.......

The only other thing which really got to me is the girls who were shown in the second half of the show. Asking a 12 year old if they are happy with never being able to have a biological child & then telling them that their child "Doesn't have to be their biological child" is a bit steep in my opinion. Also, these "boys" were dating other young girls who didn't know that they were really dating girls. That's not very fair on them at all, and the mothers comments were just plain insensitive.

I also think that if you are not old enough to consent to any sexual activity then you cannot be old enough to consent to a sex change........

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Re: 8 year olds wanting sex change........

Post by Frog on 22nd October 2009, 12:21 pm

I do see what you mean Ty, I onlt watched the first woman (and if I'm honest I probably already made my mind up about it before I did) but that really struck me as being the mothers issues being picked up by the child.

I am currently reading up on Gender Dysphoria so I'll know what I'm talking about soon.

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Re: 8 year olds wanting sex change........

Post by Bones on 22nd October 2009, 12:35 pm

Tytonidae wrote:This aspect of dating. I don't see how one can alter one's decisions about one's transgender child, just incase he dates the opposite sex and upsets them or their parents.


I don't think that should alter the parents decision, but I do think that the parent should teach their child to be honest & open about themselves to those people they decide to date. Afterall, I kept hearing the phrase that they want to be accepted & loved for who & what they are. That's not really going to be possible if a person hides who & what they are from those who matter.

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Re: 8 year olds wanting sex change........

Post by Frog on 22nd October 2009, 1:10 pm

The question of whether to counsel young children to be happy with their biological sex, or to encourage them to continue to exhibit behaviors that do not conform to gender stereotypes — or to explore a transsexual transition — is controversial. Some clinicians report a significant proportion of young children with gender identity disorder no longer have such symptoms later in life.[5] There is an active and growing movement among professionals who treat gender dysphoria in children to refer and prescribe hormones to delay the onset of puberty until a child is old enough to make an informed decision on whether hormonal gender reassignment leading to surgical gender reassignment will be in that person's best interest. [6]


Read the whole article here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_identity_disorder

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Re: 8 year olds wanting sex change........

Post by Bones on 22nd October 2009, 1:11 pm

I'm not saying there is. Put it like this:

I wouldn't expect my mate to tell me that they were transgender. Either way they'd still be a mate & it's something that I don't need to know.

I would expect my girlfriend to tell me that they were transgender. That's something I would need to know.

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Re: 8 year olds wanting sex change........

Post by Bones on 22nd October 2009, 1:14 pm

LP wrote:The question of whether to counsel young children to be happy with their biological sex, or to encourage them to continue to exhibit behaviors that do not conform to gender stereotypes — or to explore a transsexual transition — is controversial. Some clinicians report a significant proportion of young children with gender identity disorder no longer have such symptoms later in life.[5] There is an active and growing movement among professionals who treat gender dysphoria in children to refer and prescribe hormones to delay the onset of puberty until a child is old enough to make an informed decision on whether hormonal gender reassignment leading to surgical gender reassignment will be in that person's best interest. [6]


Read the whole article here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_identity_disorder


I don't think that the child can make an informed decision if you delay their puberty............

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Re: 8 year olds wanting sex change........

Post by Bones on 22nd October 2009, 1:19 pm

Tytonidae wrote:I too though that discussion on being a biological parent was all a bit heavy handed, NR. I was thinking about feezing the girls eggs when the mum asked but the doc seemed to think that was a no no and that the child should accept not being a natural parent. I wonder what ethical and practial issues are raised by having a baby with one's own eggs, thus being the biological mother but actually being a male, the father - very very complicated matters....

I believe that storing Eggs is different from storing sperm & they can't store the eggs indefinatly. However, a step as drastic as a sex change comes with many sacrifices. Unfortunately, the inability to have a biological child could well be one. But if the child waits until later on in life this is something which can be overcome........

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